關於醒與睡以及夢
http://j-krishnamurti.org.cn/viewthread.php?tid=113&extra=page%3D1
But when you have observed very closely your waking hours, all your self-centred activities, the fearful, the anxious, the guilty, when you are attentive to that all day then you will see when you sleep, you have no dreams. The mind has been watching every moment of thought, attentive to its every word, if you do it, you will see the beauty of it - not the tired boredom of watching, but the beauty of watching; you will see then that there is attention in sleep. And meditation, the thing that we have talked about during this hour, becomes extraordinarily important and worthwhile, full of dignity and grace and beauty. When you understand what attention is, not only during waking hours but also during sleep, then the whole of the mind is totally awake.
但是當你醒著的時候非常仔細地觀察了你所有的自我中心行為，恐懼，焦慮，負疚，當你整個白天對這些都全然關注到的時候，那麼你會發現在你睡覺的時候，你沒有夢。心智已然看到了思想的每個瞬間，注意到了它的每句話，如果你做到了，你會發現它的美-不是枯燥無味的觀察，而是觀察的美；你會發現在睡眠中也會有注意力。而冥想，這件我們這個小時探討的事情，變得極為重要和有價值，充滿了莊嚴，優雅和美。當你理解了注意力是什麼，不僅是在醒著的時候，而且在睡眠中，那麼整個心智就是全然清醒的。
摘自BEYOND VIOLENCE PART II CHAPTER 3 SAN DIEGO STATE COLLEGE 4TH PUBLIC TALK 9TH APRIL 1970 'MEDITATION'
So silence comes about when there is profound attention, not only at the conscious level but also at the deeper levels of consciousness. Dreams and sleep are of great importance; it is part of meditation to be awake in sleep, to be aware, attentive while the mind and the body - the organism - is asleep.
所以當不僅在意識表層而且在更深的意識層面有那種深刻的全神貫注時，寂靜就來臨了。夢和睡眠就變得非常重要；在睡眠中保持清醒是冥想的一部分，在頭腦和身體-有機體-睡著的時候覺知，保有注意力。
And during sleep there are various kinds of superficial dreams, not even worth thinking about - dreams that have no meaning at all. ... Then there is the dream which has meaning, and that meaning can be understood as it is being dreamt. This is only possible when during the day you are attentive, watching, listening to every movement of your thoughts, motives, feelings and ambitions. Watching does not tire you, does not exhaust you, if you do not correct what you watch. If you say, `This must not be' or, `It must be', then you get tired and bored. But if you watch choicelessly, are aware without like or dislike during the day, then when you dream and those dreams have some significance, at the very moment of dreaming - all dreams are active, there is always some action taking place - that very action is understood. So when you have done all this, the mind in sleep becomes extraordinarily awake and you do not have to go to an analyser of dreams. That wakefulness of the mind sees something which the conscious mind can never see.
睡眠中有很多種膚淺的夢-都不值得去想-那些夢沒有任何意義。...而還有些有意義的夢，做這樣的夢的時候，就能理解其意義了。這只有在白天你對思想的每個活動、動機、感受、野心都注意觀察和傾聽的時候才可能發生。觀察並不會讓你疲憊和勞累，只要你不想糾正你所看到的。如果你說，「不能這樣」或者「必須這樣」，那麼你就會精疲力倦。但是當你白天毫無選擇地觀察，沒有好惡地覺知，那麼當你做夢的時候，那些夢就是有意義的，在做夢的那一刻-所有的夢都是活生生的，總是有某種行動在發生-就理解了那行動本身。所以當你做到所有這些的時候，睡眠中的心智變得極為清醒，你不必去找解夢者。那警醒的心智會看到醒著的頭腦永遠無法看到的東西。
摘自BEYOND VIOLENCE PART III CHAPTER 3 LONDON 4TH PUBLIC TALK 30TH MAY 1970 'THE RELIGIOUS MIND'
K: So, in my enquiry I am asking, am I awake? What does it mean to be awake? Not awake to what is happening politically, economically, socially, that is obvious. But awake. What does it mean? I am not awake if I have any burden. You follow, sir? There is no sense of being awake when there is any kind of fear. If I live with an illusion, if my actions are neurotic, there is no state of being awake. So I'm enquiring and I can only enquire by becoming very sensitive to what is happening in me, outside me. So is the mind aware during the day completely to what is happening inside, outside of me.
克：所以，在質詢中，我問，我是清醒的嗎？清醒意味著什麼？不是清醒地知道政治上、經濟上、社會上發生著什麼，這是很明顯的。而是，清醒。它是什麼意思？如果我有任何負擔，我就不能清醒。你明白嗎，先生？有任何形式的恐懼，就不會有清醒的感覺。如果我活在幻象裡，如果我的行為是神經質的，就沒有清醒的狀態。所以我在質詢，我只有通過對我的內心和外在發生著的一切變得很敏銳，才能進行質詢。所以，心智在白天是不是完全清醒，知道自己的內心和外在發生的一切事情。
A: Upon every instant.
安：每一刻都是。
K: That's it. Otherwise I am not awake.
克：就是這樣。否則我就是不清醒的。
出處：SAN DIEGO, CALIFORNIA 28TH FEBRUARY 1974 17TH CONVERSATION WITH DR. ALLAN W. ANDERSON 'MEDITATION - 1'
K: Of course. Am I awake? Or is the past so alive that it is dictating my life in the present? Therefore I am asleep.
克：當然。我醒著嗎？還是過去太活躍了，它在支配著我現在的生活？於是我睡著了。
A: Would you say that again? It's very important.
安：你能再說一遍嗎？這點很重要。
K: I don't know how, I'll put it differently. Am I awake. Is my mind burdened with the past? And therefore bearing a burden I'm not awake to the present.
克：我不知道該怎麼說，我換個說法。我是否清醒。我的心智是否背著過去的重負？而背負著重負，我就不能清醒地面對現在。
A: Not awake in the present, exactly.
安：現在無法保持清醒，確實。
K: Not awake as I am talking.
克：即使我在說話也是不清醒的。
A: That's right.
安：對。
K: Because I'm talking from the background of my past, of my experience, of my failures, my hurts, my depressions, therefore the past is dominating and putting me to sleep now.
克：因為我講話出於的背景是我的過去，我的經驗，我的失敗，我的傷害，我的絕望，所以過去在當下控制著我，把我投入沉睡。
A: To sleep. It's a narcotic.
安：睡去。這是種麻醉劑。
K: Narcotic. Therefore what am I to do with the past? You follow, sir?
克：麻醉劑。所以我要拿過去怎麼辦？你跟上了嗎，先生？
A: Yes, I do. Yes, yes, yes.
安：是的，我跟上了。是的。
K: Past is necessary.
克：過去是必要的。
A: Of course, yes, the whole field of knowledge.
安：當然，是的，整個知識領域。
K: Knowledge. Past is necessary. But when the past covers the present, then I am asleep. So is it possible to know what the past is and not let it overflow into the present? That question and the reality of it brings its own discipline. Therefore I say, yes, I know what it means. I can live, I can keep awake totally and widely and yet operate in the field of knowledge. So there is no contradiction. I don't know if I am conveying it ?
克：知識。過去是必要的。但是當過去掩蓋了現在，那麼我就睡著了。所以，有沒有可能知道過去是什麼，但是不讓它淹沒現在？這個問題以及它的現實會帶來它自己的紀律。因此我說，是的，我知道它是什麼意思。我能完全清醒地生活，保持寬廣的清醒狀態，同時又在知識的領域裡運作。那麼就沒有了矛盾。我不知道我是不是表達清楚了？
A: Oh you are. You are, you are.
安：哦，是的。你說清楚了。
出處同上。
K: See what is taking place. Then what is sleep? I have understood now what is means to be awake. That means I am watching. I am aware. I am aware without any choice, choiceless awareness, watching, looking, observing, hearing, what is going on and what is going outside, what people tell me, whether they flatter me, or they insult me. I am watching. So I am very aware. Now, what is sleep? I know what is sleep: resting, shutting your eyes, going to bed at 9 or 10 or later. What is sleep? And in sleep, dreams. What are dreams? I don't know what the others say. I am not interested in what the others say. You follow, sir? Because my enquiry is to find out whether meditation covers the whole field of life, not just one segment.
A: My enquiry is from the point where I say, I don't know.
K: I don't know. That is right. So I'll proceed. I dream. There are dreams. What are dreams? Why should I dream? So I have to find out why I dream. What are dreams? Dreams are the continuation of my daily sleep. Which is, I haven't understood - see what is taking place, sir - I have not understood my daily life. I watch my daily life. My daily life is in disorder; so I go to sleep and the disorder continues. And the brain says, I must have order otherwise I can't function. So if the mind doesn't put order during the day, the brain tries to bring order during the night.
A: Through the dream.
K: Through the dreams, through intimations. When I awake I say, yes I have a certain feeling this must be done. So, see what takes place. When the mind is awake during the day it has order, it establishes order, in the sense we have discussed previously.
A: Yes. In that sense of order.
K: Order which comes out of the understanding of disorder. The negation of disorder is order, not the following of a blueprint.
A: No.
K: Or a pattern, all that's disorder. So during the day, the mind, the brain has established order. So when I sleep the brain isn't working out how to establish order in itself in order to be secure. Therefore the brain becomes rested.
A: I see.
K: Therefore the brain becomes quiet, sleeps without dreams. It may have superficial dreams when you eat wrongly, you know, all that kind of thing. That I am not talking about. So, sleep means regeneration of the brain. I don't know if you follow?
A: Yes, I do. I wonder if I could ask you a question about dreams here, that might introduce a distinction between dreams in terms of their nature. Sometimes we report that we've had a dream which points to future event.
K: That's another thing.
A: That's entirely different from what you are talking about.
K: Yes, yes.
A: So we could say that...
K: Sir, that, I think we can understand that very simply. You know the other day we were walking high up in the hills in India and there was a river flowing down below. And two boats were coming in the opposite direction and you knew where they were going to meet.
A: Of course.
K: When you go high enough you see the boats coming together at a precise point.
A: But that's very objective. That has nothing to do with my subjective unfinished business.
K: No.
A: Which is the other thing you were talking about.
K: That's right.
A: Yes, I quite see, I quite see. Right. What an amazing thing it would be to have all your business done and go to sleep. And if order should present you with...
K: Yes, sir.
A: ...an understanding.
K: Of course.
A: Then the understanding never stops from waking through sleeping.
K: That's right.
A: Yes. Of course. Of course. Marvelous. Marvelous
K: So you see, that way the brain is regenerated, keeps young. No conflict. Conflict wears out the brain.
A: Yes.
K: So, sleep means not only order, rejuvenation, innocence, but also in sleep there are states in which there is absolutely freedom to enquire, to see into something which you have never seen with your eyes, physical eyes.
A: Yes.
K: Of course.
A: Yes
K: So we have described sufficiently into that. I see that. So do I - does the mind live that kind of life during the day?
A: That would be rare.
K: Otherwise it is not meditation.
A: Otherwise it is not meditation, of course, of course, of course.
K: And I don't want to play a game, a hypocritical game, because I am deceiving nobody. I am deceiving myself and I don't want to deceive myself. I don't see the point of deceiving myself because I don't want to be a great man, little man, big man, success. That's all too infantile. So I say, am I living that? If not, what is happening? And it gives me energy to live that way because I have no burden of the others. I don't know?
克：看看發生了什麼。那麼睡眠是什麼？我現在已經明白了清醒是什麼意思。那意味著我在觀察。我是覺察的。我沒有任何選擇地覺察，無揀擇的覺知，觀看著，看著，觀察著，傾聽著，內在地外在地發生著什麼，人們告訴我什麼，不管他們是奉承我，還是侮辱我。我在看著。所以我很清楚很明白。那麼，睡眠是什麼？我知道睡覺是什麼：休息，閉上眼睛，9點、10點或者更晚上床睡覺。睡眠是什麼？在睡眠中，有夢。夢是什麼？我不知道別人說過什麼。別人說過什麼我不感興趣。你明白嗎，先生？因為我質疑是為了發現冥想是不是涵蓋了生命的整個領域，而不只是一部分。
安：我的質疑是從那一點開始的：我不知道。
克：我不知道。對。所以我要前進。我做夢。有夢。夢是什麼？我為什麼做夢？所以我得弄清楚我為什麼做夢。夢是什麼？夢是我每個白天昏睡的繼續。那就是，我並不瞭解-看看發生著什麼，先生-我並不瞭解我的日常生活。我觀察我的日常生活。我的日常生活處於失序中；所以我睡覺的時候繼續著那失序。而頭腦說，我必須要有秩序，否則我無法運作。所以如果心智在白天無法實現秩序，頭腦就試圖在晚上帶來秩序。
安：通過夢。
克：通過夢，通過暗示。醒著的時候我說，是的，我有種感覺這件事必須要做。所以，看看什麼發生了。當心智在白天醒著的時候，就有秩序，建立了秩序，我們之前探討的那種意義上的秩序。
安：是的。那種意義上的秩序。
克：來自於對失序的瞭解的秩序。否定失序就是秩序，而不是根據一幅藍圖的秩序。
安：不是的。
克：也不是某種模式的秩序，那些都是失序。所以在白天，心智，頭腦，建立起了秩序。所以當我睡覺的時候，頭腦不去努力建立自身的秩序以獲取安全。這樣頭腦就得到了休息。
安：我明白了。
克：所以頭腦變得安靜，睡覺的時候沒有夢。如果吃的東西不對，可能有淺層的夢，你知道這些東西。我說的不是這些。所以，睡眠意味著頭腦的新生。我不知道你跟上了沒？
安：是的，我明白。我想知道我能不能在這裡問你一個關於夢的問題，這可能會根據夢的性質引入夢的一種區分。我們有時候會說我們做的一些夢預言了未來發生的事情。
克：那是另外一回事。
安：跟你說的完全不同。
克：是的，是的。
安：那麼我們能不能說...
克：先生，這點，我想我們很容易就能理解。你知道在印度有一天我們爬到很高的山上，下面有一條河在流。有兩艘船相向駛來，你知道它們會在哪裡會合。
安：當然。
克：當你站得夠高你會發現兩艘船會精確地在某點相遇。
安：但那是非常客觀的。那與我主觀上沒做完的事情無關。
克：無關。
安：那是你在談的另一回事。
克：對。
安：是的，我很明白，我很明白。對。白天把所有事情做完，然後去睡覺，那是多麼了不起的一件事啊。如果秩序能給你一種...
克：是的，先生。
安：...一種瞭解。
克：當然。
安：然後那瞭解從醒到睡從未停止過。
克：對。
安：是的。當然。當然。非常了不起。
克：所以你看，頭腦就這樣新生了，保持年輕。沒有衝突。衝突會耗盡頭腦。
安：是的。
克：所以，睡眠不僅意味著秩序，新生，單純，而且在睡眠中有種狀態，你能完全自由地去探索，去發現你的眼睛，你的肉眼從未見到過的東西。
安：是的。
克：當然。
安：是的。
克：所以這點我們闡述得已經很充分了。我看到了。那麼我能不能-心智能不能在白天就過這樣的一種生活？
安：那很少見。
克：否則就不是冥想。
安：否則就不是冥想，當然，當然。
克：可是我不想遊戲，玩虛偽的遊戲，因為我不想欺騙任何人。我在欺騙我自己，而我不想欺騙我自己。我看不出欺騙我自己有什麼好，因為我也不想成為一個偉大的人，小人物，大人物，成功。這都太幼稚了。所以我說，我是在這樣生活嗎？如果不是，那麼發生了什麼？那樣的生活給了我能量，因為我再也沒有其他的負擔。我不知道（我說明白了沒）？
（出處同上）